Net Worth at age 55

[Angus Avagadro]

This just isn't true. Most Americans are doing better financially now than they were 2019-2020.

Most Americans have improved their standard of living since then despite inflation.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households

Whats not true? Our

This just isn't true. Most Americans are doing better financially now than they were 2019-2020.

Most Americans have improved their standard of living since then despite inflation.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households

Our standard of living is not diminished ? It's not due to a multiplicity of causes? It was only a generation ago that a working man could buy a home with 2 cars and have a stay at home wife. Now, with our current state of affairs, most families can't afford to move or buy a house due to home prices and interest rates. Hence the sluggish housing market. As far as my other comments , they are accurate. People can continue to tell the majority of Americans that they are doing better, but they don't feel it.

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[Splenda88]

This just isn't true. Most Americans are doing better financially now than they were 2019-2020.

Most Americans have improved their standard of living since then despite inflation.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households

While that might be true, people usually go by their gut feeling.

For instance, my net worth in 2020 was ~500k, and I still complain about the price of goods even if my net worth now is 1.1+ million.

 

[rowsdower88]

Our standard of living is not diminished ? It's not due to a multiplicity of causes? It was only a generation ago that a working man could buy a home with 2 cars and have a stay at home wife.

Just so we're clear I was using a pretty impoverished approximation of "standard of living" BUT it was just over the course of 4 years: Real Wages. But you think Americans' standard of living was better in the 1960-1980s (it's unclear which generation you are referring too) and to assess that your metric is how much one male worker could provide for his family.

If we look on that broad of a time scale, you probably should broaden your measurement of "standard of living".

Currently, both of our measurements ignore sexism (for example, that women couldn't get a credit card on their own until 1974) and Jim Crow/redlining racism. Reducing racism and sexism on their own has improved the quality of life of millions of Americans. The one male worker supporting a family wasn't a reality for most women or minorities.

Our measurements also ignore that the amount and quality of goods has improved dramatically since 1960-80. Human wants are infinite and as people have more access to good products they want more of them. Nowadays, a cell phone is a necessity for example as are air bags and seat belts and millions of other tiny improvements.

We also ignore other things like community, longevity, education, civic engagement etc... that also factor into most people's idea of standard of living.

So when I ignored all these other factors and focused on Real Wages over the course of 4 years I'm making the assumption that those other things didn't change THAT much. That is an assumption that could be challenged. But when you make the broader claim that standard of living for Americans can be approximated over decades by what one man can afford and also neglect all of these other factors... I just don't think that's the same comparison. The Cleavers from Leave It To Beaver weren't representative for most Americans. If you want to say that Real Wages aren't a good approximation for standard of living over a short time period, that's fine, we could choose another. Maybe median net worth? That's also up from 2019 to 2023.

Tldr: I assumed real wages served as a reasonable approximation of American standard of living over 4 years. You made an (IMO) unreasonable approximation of standard of living that neglects most Americans over the course of decades.

 

[chessknt]

I still don't understand how people think that the president somehow has control over inflation. Are people really gullible enough to think that Biden or Trump have some magical power to dictate our economy?

 

[Splenda88]

I still don't understand how people think that the president somehow has control over inflation. Are people really gullible enough to think that Biden or Trump have some magical power to dictate our economy?

That is why I never voted on the economy. The person in the white house has very little to do with the economy.

It's not like people a gullible. I believe people want their guy to win no matter what.

 

[betamale]

I still don't understand how people think that the president somehow has control over inflation. Are people really gullible enough to think that Biden or Trump have some magical power to dictate our economy?

if you raise tariff on imports, then ya, very inflationary. onshoring critical imports will probably be deflationary. both of which i prefer than keeping manufacturing off shore. foreign, economic, energy policy set by the executive branch has huge economic implications, see Europe.

 

[chessknt]

if you raise tariff on imports, then ya, very inflationary. onshoring critical imports will probably be deflationary. both of which i prefer than keeping manufacturing off shore. foreign, economic, energy policy set by the executive branch has huge economic implications, see Europe.

But in the scheme of the entire national economy what impact does that have by itself? Makes no sense to vote for/against tariffs as the crucial deciding factor.

 

[nimbus]

Just so we're clear I was using a pretty impoverished approximation of "standard of living" BUT it was just over the course of 4 years: Real Wages. But you think Americans' standard of living was better in the 1960-1980s (it's unclear which generation you are referring too) and to assess that your metric is how much one male worker could provide for his family.

If we look on that broad of a time scale, you probably should broaden your measurement of "standard of living".

Currently, both of our measurements ignore sexism (for example, that women couldn't get a credit card on their own until 1974) and Jim Crow/redlining racism. Reducing racism and sexism on their own has improved the quality of life of millions of Americans. The one male worker supporting a family wasn't a reality for most women or minorities.

Our measurements also ignore that the amount and quality of goods has improved dramatically since 1960-80. Human wants are infinite and as people have more access to good products they want more of them. Nowadays, a cell phone is a necessity for example as are air bags and seat belts and millions of other tiny improvements.

We also ignore other things like community, longevity, education, civic engagement etc... that also factor into most people's idea of standard of living.

So when I ignored all these other factors and focused on Real Wages over the course of 4 years I'm making the assumption that those other things didn't change THAT much. That is an assumption that could be challenged. But when you make the broader claim that standard of living for Americans can be approximated over decades by what one man can afford and also neglect all of these other factors... I just don't think that's the same comparison. The Cleavers from Leave It To Beaver weren't representative for most Americans. If you want to say that Real Wages aren't a good approximation for standard of living over a short time period, that's fine, we could choose another. Maybe median net worth? That's also up from 2019 to 2023.

Tldr: I assumed real wages served as a reasonable approximation of American standard of living over 4 years. You made an (IMO) unreasonable approximation of standard of living that neglects most Americans over the course of decades.

To your point, if the Cleavers were a typical American family in the 1960s, they lived in a 1000-1200sf home. Ahhh the good old days when it took 10min to vacuum the whole house.

Have American Homes Changed Much Over the Years? Take a Look. |...

Of course, the average American home today is markedly different than the average home in the 1950s and '60s, but you may be surprised to learn just how different they are -- in ways you might not have expected.

compasscaliforniablog.com

 

[MirrorTodd]

I still don't understand how people think that the president somehow has control over inflation. Are people really gullible enough to think that Biden or Trump have some magical power to dictate our economy?

Yes and even some physicians on this board think that way. If anyone who is reading this feels attacked or is offended at that statement, then congrats, you just outed yourself.

 

[cincincyreds]

Yes and even some physicians on this board think that way. If anyone who is reading this feels attacked or is offended at that statement, then congrats, you just outed yourself.

The issue the world is facing comes down to 4 problems. We are using 1.5 earths of resources. Microplastics are killing us. Climate change is disruptive, just look at the cost of insuring a house in Flordia or California. And I believe the big one is the world is not having enough children. Less labor increases labor costs as we live in a world of supply and demand.

I always wondered if we incentive people to have more kids whether this would improve things.

 

[MirrorTodd]

The issue the world humanity is facing comes down to 4 problems. We are using 1.5 earths of resources. Microplastics are killing us. Climate change is disruptive, just look at the cost of insuring a house in Flordia or California. And I believe the big one is the world is not having enough children. Less labor increases labor costs as we live in a world of supply and demand.

I always wondered if we incentive people to have more kids whether this would improve things.

The world is going to continue on just fine without us humans. I don't know if this is nihilistic or not, but personally, I'm not all too concerned with humanity. We're a pretty **** species anyway considering the fact that we know better and yet we are still ****ing up our only home. So at the end of it all, we probably don't deserve to continue as a species. Your other points don't really make sense: We're using 1.5 earths resources and so the answer is that we aren't having enough children? (not trying to start an argument, I'm just bored at work)

 

[DazedWanderer]

I still don't understand how people think that the president somehow has control over inflation. Are people really gullible enough to think that Biden or Trump have some magical power to dictate our economy?

They have a ton of indirect control over inflation. Other than obviously the fed controlling central bank interest rates as the biggest hammer of federal government control over inflation, policies such as tariffs for overseas products are inflationary. Raising the minimum wage can be inflationary. The huge government handouts during covid were massively inflationary. Shutting down manufacturing and shipping facilities during covid was highly inflationary. Not saying any of these are inherently bad or good policy decisions, or blaming the decisions on Biden vs Trump, as both were guilty of covid era money-printing and some of these decisions may have had other benefits, but these were clear federal government policy decisions that led to significant inflation. Trying to argue the federal government has no control over inflation is incredibly disingenuous. It is difficult for them to micromanage levels of inflation in a completely predictable manner, but many of these policies are heavily tied to inflationary pressures.

 

[chessknt]

They have a ton of indirect control over inflation. Other than obviously the fed controlling central bank interest rates as the biggest hammer of control over inflation, policies such as tariffs for overseas products are inflationary. Raising the minimum wage can be inflationary. The huge government handouts during covid were massively inflationary. Shutting down manufacturing and shipping facilities during covid was highly inflationary. Not saying any of these are inherently bad or good policy decisions, or blaming the decisions on Biden vs Trump, as both were guilty of covid era money-printing and some of these decisions may have had other benefits, but these were clear federal government policy decisions that led to significant inflation. Trying to argue the federal government has no control over inflation is incredibly disingenuous. It is difficult for them to micromanage levels of inflation in a completely predictable manner, but many of these policies are heavily tied to inflationary pressures.

The president can't raise the minimum wage without a law from Congress. Citing Covid-era policies (which the president didnt even have control over--when did Trump or Biden shut down manufacturing by executive order?) isn't a compelling argument this election cycle when they no longer apply.

I am not saying the federal government has no influence over inflation, I am saying that the president as the head of the executive branch of the government has little control over the economy. If they had so much control over the economy it would always be doing amazing (especially around election time). It is obviously far more complicated than who is in the oval office and since both parties suck horribly at the flavor of the month (inflation, monetary policy) it shouldn't even be a consideration when voting at this point.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Yes and even some physicians on this board think that way. If anyone who is reading this feels attacked or is offended at that statement, then congrats, you just outed yourself.

Why you can't understand the printing trillions of dollars over a few years causes inflation baffles me. Every third world country does the same thing with inflation in the double or triple digits. Presidents sign these trillion dollar bills into law. They absolutely contribute to inflation. Biden's student loan forgiveness program is also inflationary (450 million +). Basic economics dictates when there is too much money chasing too few goods you get inflation.

Biden Blames Businesses for Inflation, but His Own Numbers Refute Him

At least three-quarters of Americans have President Joe Biden on their naughty list for his abysmal handling of the economy. Unfortunately, he isn’t learning from this. Instead of accepting responsibility and course correcting, he’s doubling down on inflationary deficits and casting blame...

www.heritage.org

 

[BLADEMDA]

Joe Biden is more responsible for high inflation than for abundant jobs

The main effect of the president’s economic policies has been to boost prices

www.economist.com

 

[rowsdower88]

Joe Biden is more responsible for high inflation than for abundant jobs

The main effect of the president’s economic policies has been to boost prices

www.economist.com

I think it's fair to say Presidents "influence" inflation as opposed to saying they "control" inflation. But yes, Biden and Congressional action have been inflationary... and those actions have been good for the country in most part. The Inflation Reduction Act and CHIPs act in particular are much needed bipartisan reforms for infrastructure and maintaining American competitiveness. Student Loan Forgiveness has been hobbled by SCOTUS, so it's not as inflationary as feared.

Given that you've cited The Economist being critical of Biden, I'll also point out that they believe Trump is the "biggest danger" to the world in 2024. So if you value their opinion...

The "greatest threat" Trump poses "is to his own country," the Economist argues. The "moral authority" of the U.S. would decline "because America will have voted him in while knowing the worst."

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/16/economist-trump-2024-presidential

Donald Trump poses the biggest danger to the world in 2024

What his victory in America’s election would mean

www.economist.com

 

[chessknt]

Why you can't understand the printing trillions of dollars over a few years causes inflation baffles me. Every third world country does the same thing with inflation in the double or triple digits. Presidents sign these trillion dollar bills into law. They absolutely contribute to inflation. Biden's student loan forgiveness program is also inflationary (450 million +). Basic economics dictates when there is too much money chasing too few goods you get inflation.

Biden Blames Businesses for Inflation, but His Own Numbers Refute Him

At least three-quarters of Americans have President Joe Biden on their naughty list for his abysmal handling of the economy. Unfortunately, he isn’t learning from this. Instead of accepting responsibility and course correcting, he’s doubling down on inflationary deficits and casting blame...

www.heritage.org

Trump spent over 15 million in his first 2 years as president on Mar a Lago alone and probably more than 130 million on golf trips so don't get too excited about 450 million going to students if that doeant serve as a deterrent for you voting for him (for the third time).

 

[DazedWanderer]

Trump spent over 15 million in his first 2 years as president on Mar a Lago alone and probably more than 130 million on golf trips so don't get too excited about 450 million going to students if that doeant serve as a deterrent for you voting for him (for the third time).

That was a typo. The actual number is 450 billion.

 

[Gern Blansten]

The issue the world is facing comes down to 4 problems. We are using 1.5 earths of resources. Microplastics are killing us. Climate change is disruptive, just look at the cost of insuring a house in Flordia or California. And I believe the big one is the world is not having enough children. Less labor increases labor costs as we live in a world of supply and demand.

I always wondered if we incentive people to have more kids whether this would improve things.

The first one you list suggests overpopulation. The last one is a solution for the first one, but regarded as the biggest problem.

 

[Splenda88]

I just did an irresponsible thing.

I just ordered a model Y Tesla (long range) that cost 53k including interest. I might be financially ruined because of that stupid purchase.

 

[anonperson]

I just did an irresponsible thing.

I just ordered a model Y Tesla (long range) that cost 53k including interest. I might be financially ruined because of that stupid purchase.

That's a bit over dramatic.

You should be fine.

I'm not a Tesla fan but my colleagues who have them are generally pretty happy.

 

[aneftp]

I just did an irresponsible thing.

I just ordered a model Y Tesla (long range) that cost 53k including interest. I might be financially ruined because of that stupid purchase.

Why not model x if self employed? Better tax deduction.

I have grown to love my model y though. Had it for almost 4 years. First ride very bumpy compared to my previous bmw convertible and Audi suv q7 and Range Rover sport.

But it’s smaller and more nimble.

I’ll probably get another car suv end of year.

Just do some extra locums work. 53k is nothing these days if you have the right locums work lined up for the summer.

 

[Splenda88]

Why not model x if self employed? Better tax deduction.

I have grown to love my model y though. Had it for almost 4 years. First ride very bumpy compared to my previous bmw convertible and Audi suv q7 and Range Rover sport.

But it’s smaller and more nimble.

I’ll probably get another car suv end of year.

Just do some extra locums work. 53k is nothing these days if you have the right locums work lined up for the summer.

I am not self employed

I got the model Y because it's a little bit bigger.

I have started to work an extra day so I can use that money to pay for it.

 

[mentos]

I am new to this thread. If you are married, does net worth include both spouses?

 

[BLADEMDA]

I am new to this thread. If you are married, does net worth include both spouses?

If you got divorced would your net worth be reduced by 1/2?

 

[abolt18]

I am new to this thread. If you are married, does net worth include both spouses?

I guess that depends on if you combine your finances or not?

 

[aneftp]

If you got divorced would your net worth be reduced by 1/2?

More likely reduced by 60% if ur spouse doesn’t work and has school age kids (with alimony from 4- lifetime alimony ).

So even with a 50/50 split the stay at home gets like another 400k-1 million in alimony and child support payments

Say net worth is 5 million. 50-50 split means 2.5 million. Plus ex spouse gets another 500k in spousal support and another 200k child support

So none earning spouse really is getting 60%.

Or u can bicker like my fiends and it will cost u another 300-500k in legal fees.

You will lose either way in no fault divorce states

 

[triggermaster]

I am new to this thread. If you are married, does net worth include both spouses?

If you are divorced your net worth is 50% lower. If you are married your net worth is effectively 70% lower.
(Comment for the men obviously)

 

[aneftp]

If you are divorced your net worth is 50% lower. If you are married your net worth is effectively 70% lower.
(Comment for the men obviously)

That’s true. My friend was paying 13-14k a month in alimony (no kids either!) and he said he was actually saving money the first year of divorce since he didn’t have to pay for the farm and horses he gave up. Women do 70% of the spending in households.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Women do 70% of the spending in households.

My wife does 90% of the spending

 

[mmag]

That’s true. My friend was paying 13-14k a month in alimony (no kids either!) and he said he was actually saving money the first year of divorce since he didn’t have to pay for the farm and horses he gave up. Women do 70% of the spending in households.

What is it about doctors and marrying women who have expensive hobbies and tastes?

 

[Splenda88]

What is it about doctors and marrying women who have expensive hobbies and tastes?

Isn't 70%+ of consumer spending in the US made by women?

 

[mmag]

Isn't 70%+ of consumer spending in the US made by women?

Doesn't that include groceries, eating out, household necessities, kids activities and other stuff that men would be spending money on if there wasn't a woman to do it for them?

 

[GassYous]

My wife does 90% of the spending

Exactly. I basically only need to pay for rent, utilities, food and gas. The amount of amazon packages my wife gets is probably responsible for some significant deforestation.

 

[Splenda88]

Doesn't that include groceries, eating out, household necessities, kids activities and other stuff that men would be spending money on if there wasn't a woman to do it for them?

Not sure. I would have to look into it.

My wife probably does 95%+ of the spending. I tend to make the decision for the big ticket items (car, house etc...) except vacation. I dont get involved when it comes to ordering things online that cost $100. Not worth my time/energy.

 

[aneftp]

Not sure. I would have to look into it.

My wife probably does 95%+ of the spending. I tend to make the decision for the big ticket items (car, house etc...) except vacation. I dont get involved when it comes to ordering things online that cost $100. Not worth my time/energy.

Men make big purchases for sure.

But the day to day spending. Women spend more.

It’s gets worse when u get into the country club scene. Those bottles of wine/luncheons/happy hours $60-100 outings add up.

 

[GassYous]

What is it about doctors and marrying women who have expensive hobbies and tastes?

I think women just grow the spending into whatever the income is. Most women will develop expensive hobbies and tastes if they have the wherewithal. They will buy fake LV and Gucci bags when they are poor and upgrade to the real thing when they aren't.

 

[sloh]

Men make big purchases for sure.

But the day to day spending. Women spend more.

It’s gets worse when u get into the country club scene. Those bottles of wine/luncheons/happy hours $60-100 outings add up.

Are these country clubs actually fun?

 

[mentos]

What is it about doctors and marrying women who have expensive hobbies and tastes?

You just described 90%+ of all women.

 

[kidthor]

It’s gets worse when u get into the country club scene. Those bottles of wine/luncheons/happy hours $60-100 outings add up.

That sounds hellacious.

Why do people even join country clubs? I think I get better rewards and enjoyment from being a member of Vons club.

 

[sevoflurane]

That sounds hellacious.

Why do people even join country clubs? I think I get better rewards and enjoyment from being a member of Vons club.

Yeah. I’ve never bought into multiple tens of thousands of dollars to be part of a “golf club”. I am certainly not judging, just not how I like to spend my money. I’d rather go to some exotic location for a few weeks. Even then, I would never spend the kind of cash that some people do on these clubs.
This is one of our local golf club dues.
Nope. Never in my life- but again… I don’t judge.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Yeah. I’ve never bought into multiple tens of thousands of dollars to be part of a “golf club”. I am certainly not judging, just not how I like to spend my money. I’d rather go to some exotic location for a few weeks. Even then, I would never spend the kind of cash that some people do on these clubs.
This is one of our local gold club dues.
Nope. Never in my life- but again… I don’t judge.


View attachment 386497

I feel exactly the same. Even if the dues were a fraction of that, it’s of zero value to me.

 

[Splenda88]

Yeah. I’ve never bought into multiple tens of thousands of dollars to be part of a “golf club”. I am certainly not judging, just not how I like to spend my money. I’d rather go to some exotic location for a few weeks. Even then, I would never spend the kind of cash that some people do on these clubs.
This is one of our local gold club dues.
Nope. Never in my life- but again… I don’t judge.


View attachment 386497

Only doctors who have been making 800k+ for 20+ yrs can afford those type of golf memberships.

I thought these memberships were 10-20k initial fee and $300-500/monthly dues.

These expensive memberships are for high level executives, not for broke doctors.

 

[GassYous]

That sounds hellacious.

Why do people even join country clubs? I think I get better rewards and enjoyment from being a member of Vons club.

So that they don't have to hang out with the poor people

 

[aneftp]

Only doctors who have been making 800k+ for 20+ yrs can afford those type of golf memberships.

I thought these memberships were 10-20k initial fee and $300-500/monthly dues.

These expensive memberships are for high level executives, not for broke doctors.

That’s how much my country club cost

It’s not some crazy 100k entry fee. More like 20k
$500-1000 a month for which level of golf u want (preferential Saturdays Sunday is $1000/month (green fees are only $15). Green fees are no longer tax deductible. No food and beverage min. Cart girls

I know my tax laws!

Our country club has super nice gym and resort style pool with cabanas (of course most of us have pools in our backyard also since it’s Florida) and 12 clay courts. That alone is worth $300 a month (a family gym membership is worth $100-120.

To each their own

Some of my colleagues also have airplane memberships/flying clubs.

 

[Splenda88]

That’s how much my country club cost

It’s not some crazy 100k entry fee. More like 20k
$500-1000 a month for which level of golf u want (preferential Saturdays Sunday is $1000/month (green fees are only $15). Green fees are no longer tax deductible. No food and beverage min. Cart girls

I know my tax laws!

Our country club has super nice gym and resort style pool with cabanas (of course most of us have pools in our backyard also since it’s Florida) and 12 clay courts. That alone is worth $300 a month (a family gym membership is worth $100-120.

To each their own

Some of my colleagues also have airplane memberships/flying clubs.

That is more in line with what I thought golf membership fee was like for the upper middle class (or rich people in some aspect).

 

[mmag]

You just described 90%+ of all women.

More like 90% of all women who gravitate towards Docto$. They use to be called gold diggers but looks like all the guys here have accepted it as normal.

 

[Splenda88]

More like 90% of all women who gravitate towards Docto$. They use to be called gold diggers but looks like all the guys here have accepted it as normal.

I would bet the majority of doctors probably meet their spouses before becoming doctors

It's normal for women to want to be with rich powerful men, and society believes doctors are (up for debate)

It's also normal for men to want to be with beautiful women.

 

[makemoney2024]

The issue the world is facing comes down to 4 problems. We are using 1.5 earths of resources. Microplastics are killing us. Climate change is disruptive, just look at the cost of insuring a house in Flordia or California. And I believe the big one is the world is not having enough children. Less labor increases labor costs as we live in a world of supply and demand.

I always wondered if we incentive people to have more kids whether this would improve things.

More kids? That’s gonna help the environment how? It’s counterintuitive to your statement of the resources we use.

 

[doctalaughs]

I will point out that inflation for “luxury” goods such as higher end travel is up 70-85% since 2019. My salary certainly isn’t up 80% since then.

I could care less about the cost of eggs and milk - but when I used to be able to ski slopeside at a 4 star hotel and now it’s $1500/night, that “feels” like a downgrade in lifestyle. I could pay it — but won’t because luxury items are discretionary and it’s not worth that to me.

Obviously no one should feel bad for anyone in this situation at all- but I give this example to point out that inflation absolutely can be influential and noticable even to “rich” physicians who don’t feel “better off” necessarily.

I agree with @BLADEMDA as well that it makes me re-think my retirement number. I used to think 10M was super-conservative, now I’m thinking it’s necessary if I want to do the (admittedly luxury) things thay I want in retirement.

Wealthy Travelers Are Fueling a Surge in Luxury Hotel Prices

According to new data from Virtuoso, hotel rates reached peak levels this year while travelers continue to spend big on luxe resorts and train trips.

robbreport.com